Scott Froschauer is an artist known by many for his public art installations of street signs. They look just like the street signs you pass by every day, but the messages they convey are not what you’d ever expect to see. This episode continues the conversation about play and activism . Scott discusses how experiential art has a lot in common with improv. It grounds us in the moment and helps us, as he describes it, “do a check on who’s in charge of your inner voice.”  

Scott Froschauer is an experimental artist who lives and works in Los Angeles, and he likes it there. His background consists of a structured education in Engineering, Theoretical Linguistics, Science, Art, Computer Programming and Business along with practical experience in Fabrication, Design, Non-ordinary Reality, Experiential Narrative, Venture Capital, Counterfeiting and Breathing.

Scott’s work is first and foremost experiential, focusing on pieces that are not easily captured through photography and digital distribution. From the setting of reassuring street signs to the texture of burnt canvas, Scott’s pieces are designed to be experienced in person. 

Some of his work is an exploration in emotional connectedness, some work is about revolution, particularly considering that our culture considers being connected to oneself as a revolutionary act, but his primary focus is on exploring new spaces and techniques for communication.

What happens if we replace coersive language with positive language?

Kara Fortier: Now that we’ve heard your bio, tell me a little bit about you and your work.

Scott Froschaur: [00:02:21] Well, a lot of my work is about empathy and compassion. I think a lot of the artwork that people know me for now is my, public art installations of street signs. I fabricate, street signs to department of transportation spec, but I replaced the traditional narrative of negativity with positive affirmations and explorations and, self empathy.

So, a normal street sign would say “no left turn” or “wrong way”.  these, all these negative sorts of things, I thought about what happens if we replace that with positive language? Cause we’re so inundated by that, we’re inundated. It kind of starts with this idea of street art being a counterpoint to marketing.

Marketing is kind of this omnipresent sort of force in our lives. It’s invisible because it’s so consistently present. We don’t even notice it it’s a constant bombardment. And one of the primary concepts of marketing is this idea of self-alienation. And when I say self-alienation,  it’s, marketing will say to you, “you smell” and then say, “buy our deodorant”, but it starts with this notion of you smell, or you’re not happy enough, or,  informing you of a lack that you have, just by your very existence.

And so, we’re surrounded by constant messages of self-alienation – we’re constantly told that – where you lack something and that these products will fill that void. And so,  it was exploring street art as a counterpoint to marketing and thinking about, okay, well, how do we change that story from one of being continuously surrounded with a self-alienation, with some other sort of concept.

And when I was thinking about street signs, we’re going to really subconscious level. You could be,  before you can drive, you already know what a red octagon means. It means stop. You already know that. So, it’s deeply ingrained and your foot and goes to the brake pedal before you actually process that a stop sign says, stop.  it’s, it’s reflexive, it’s subconscious.

Street signs are working on us that same way with this negative language, but at a subconscious level. They’re digging deep behind our conscious minds and deploying this negativity on us. So it was like, okay, let’s use the same font, same, geometric shapes use all of these things that are already tied into our subconscious, but instead of delivering a payload of negativity, hijack that and deliver this payload of empathy and self-awareness or self-soothing, and those sorts of things.

What does a group of people produce when they’re motivated by inspiration rather than when they’re forced to work?

Kara Fortier: [00:05:07] And when you’re talking about marketing and also street signs, these things start to become our inner voice. The things we hear the most start to become our inner-voice, and the marketing voices are the most insidious. And what you’ve done is literally take all of that and turn it into such a positive, inner-voice replacement that kind of reminds you that maybe you’re saying those negative things to yourself all the time.

Scott Froschaur: [00:05:35] You’re subjected to them constantly and, and, yeah, I think of the concept of coercion, they’re like, a stop sign is coercive “do not enter” is coercive. And so, I thought about this concept – the difference between coercion and inspiration – I was motivated by working on Burning Man art.

We’d work on these huge sculptures with people, and when someone came to work on a giant sculpture for burning man, they weren’t there because they were being coerced. They were there through inspiration and watching that process. What does a group of people produce when they’re motivated by inspiration rather than when they’re forced to work, to pay their rent or, whatever it is, through coercion. There’s a different outcome. And so that was part of it too, this notion that the street signs are coercive, and how can we turn that into inspiration rather than coercion?

Kara Fortier: [00:06:35] Absolutely. And you just had an installation out there last year, right?  Your most recent, I was looking at some pictures last year.

Scott Froschaur: [00:06:47] Last year. It would be the most recent, there would be another one this year, if there was one this year.

Kara Fortier: [00:06:50] Yeah. Well, there’s none this year, and speaking of that, you have had some really cool responses to the pandemic. I know you have masks that have your signs on it, that kind of thing. And you have this BLM sticker graphic that you put on your website for people to use?

Scott Froschaur: [00:07:11] Yeah, that’s actually, that actually, it doesn’t predate the Black Lives Matter movement, but it predates the current environment. It was several years ago.

It was around the beginning of the, the original beginnings of the Black Lives Matter movement. And it’s, it’s a black power fist that, MaloChango, is another way to say it. And then it takes the typical street sign that would say something like “dangerous road ahead” or something like that, or “left turn ahead.” And it says “resistance ahead”. And so that was, my, my work is really, deeply political at a subconscious level. I’ve got this belief that increasing levels of empathy is an inherently political act. So I’m not usually out there at least with the street signs talking about, daily politics.

And so that’s, that’s a piece from years ago that I, I was, I was actually kind of, I wasn’t sure whether or not it fit in with all of the other work I was doing. I displayed it at a couple of different events, but I think the tenor has changed and it’s interesting when things that you might have felt uncomfortable with, kind of come to the mainstream and now all of a sudden it’s appropriate to talk about these kinds of things.

Kara Fortier: [00:08:42] It’s funny that you use this word political, it feels, like that word becomes this big negative. “I don’t want to get political.” “I don’t want to be political”, but political is actually, if we could just reframe the word, we can’t really get away from it in an interconnected world.

[00:09:01] And all of those things that are going on on the inside, on the subconscious level in each individual that sees those signs and experiences whatever they experience in that moment of cognitive dissonance between what the sign looks like and what the sign says, it really can be, I think, political and a good sense. And I wish we could find a way to make language around political around politics mean something good and interconnected. I don’t know if that will ever happen.

We’re in a moment where we feel that it’s challenging to imagine what a future looks like.

Scott Froschaur: [00:09:33] Well, it’s funny. So I was thinking today, I was thinking about what we were going to talk about. And I was thinking that then concept of play and the concept of creating space for creativity and, kind of non-defined space and allowing things to occur. And I was thinking about this notion of kind of a, a storyteller, it would be in a village or in a tribe, these kinds of, some people would call it a shaman, something like that. It was this idea of, having a dream.

[00:10:14] And, the tribal elders or the village elders or the city elders or whoever they were, had to have a vision of a future. And there’s a term I think of which is called “dream the culture forward”, and this idea that, we’re in a moment where we feel that it’s challenging to imagine what a future looks like. It’s a space that’s really challenging to even imagine a future. And it would be someone like the shaman or a village elder or someone who would then come forward and tell a story,  they would be storytellers and they would tell a story of a future and it would come from a dream and it might be through a shamanic process, it might be through a vision quest.

It could be through all these things, but that’s how the cultures moved forward was through this visioning. And it, to me, it relates to the concept of play. It relates to this dreaming, this creativity.

That’s now our political system and that’s our governmental system. They are, we rely on them to dream us forward, out of our present. And I think it’s an interesting relationship we’re having. So, when we’re talking about politics and we’re talking about play, I think there’s an interesting intersection of, what is the dream for our future?

[00:11:51] And how do we embrace our dream for the future? How do our leaders, whoever that might be, political or, social or whoever they are, how do they dream us forward from this situation? And I think that’s related to play. I think that’s related to creativity that’s related to, intuition, and a, kind of, “non-thought”, whatever we want to call that.

Kara Fortier: [00:12:25] Non-productive thought. I mean, productivity and play are kind of  opposites, but it’s funny because it’s the hardest thing for us to try to figure out how to do as, as adults. We need it to be productive. I guess the hardest part of the question, who’s dreaming for us, is that what is “us” in their mind? What is “we” in their minds? That’s the hardest part right now is to try to make sure we have a government that actually includes everyone.

Last week’s episode is with the Global Play Brigade and the two founders of that. They talk about how improv teaches the values of being able to say yes-and, to share a space to do this active listening with one another, to actually create something new, to create a story. Do you think art can do that kind of thing? I know improv is something a little different, but it’s, what do you think of that question?

…being grounded, being in the moment, that’s a core element of what my work is about.

Scott Froschaur: [00:13:34] Well, it’s, it’s interesting because I enjoy all forms of art. So when it said, when you read my bio, experiential narrative is like improv. So you have narrative, which would be like a written narrative would be a book you’d read, but experiential narrative be like, it’s actually like being at Burning Man – it’s an experiential narrative, you’re just walking through space and you’re having this experience.

And a story is unfolding as you move through the space. But I think one of the things that would relate to improv is immediacy and immediacy is deeply involved in play. It’s all of these things, being present, you talked about being grounded, being in the moment, that’s a core element of what my work is about. It’s about trying to get people to experience that moment. And that can happen.  

I think that there’s this concept of like a short circuiting. So when someone sees a sign that they think is a stop sign and they get up next to it and they’ve been convinced it’s a stop sign, it’s a red octagon. And the first two letters are S T they’re convinced, and then maybe they just glance over and realize, “Oh, it doesn’t say stop. It says start.” And to me, there’s a disconnect that happens there that, that grounds them in the moment.

There’s this word called the quotidian. The quotidian comes from the Situationists and, some of the avantgarde artists of the early 20th century and the quotidian is this notion of the “everyday” in French.

So Le Pan Quotidian is like our everyday bread, but the idea of the quotidian is that which we don’t actually even notice or process. So it’s that, that walk to work every day or whatever it is that, we just fail to even notice anymore. We just get so ingrained in it that it’s, it’s kind of nothing.

So I’ve got this notion that the Situationists has had, which was called anti-quotidian or counter-quotidian. It’s to snap you back and get you out of that haze of the everyday and,  ground you back in the immediacy of the moment by a spectacle or by some sort of short circuiting that surprises you.

And all of a sudden, now you’re here and you’re like, oh, I’m not normally even here. I’m normally just kind of in a haze moving through my life. And now I’m, Oh my God. I’m here in this moment. And, that’s, I think a critical component of my work, that a desire for short-circuiting and surprise to ground you back into the moment.

I would say, that’s how I would relate that to something like improv, because to me, improv is about being super present, and play is about being super present. It’s about letting go of the future, letting go of the past.

And, yeah, I think that’s critical to my work and it’s something that I  pursue in all sorts of different kinds of work, and at Burning Man, that’s something that you’re always pursuing all the time. Anybody who’s making art out there is attempting to kind of short circuit reality and bring people into a present moment with, either something so large that it creates awe or it’s different and they’re like, “I’ve never seen that before”. A lot of it to me has to do with how to generate immediacy, how to create contact with the moment.

Kara Fortier: [00:17:21] Yeah. It’s funny. The art out there my first year, that got me the most, the ones that I remembered the most were the smaller, like the Phone Booth to God, the size of a regular old phone booth. And it’s just in the middle of a bunch of other things that are around when you see the phone booth, like you used to see phone booths. And to me it just, it was one of those things that made me stop for a second and go, wait, hold on. That can’t be a real thing, you know? And then I got to have the experience of this silly phone booth, but your signs are also that.

I’m kind of excited that there’s no Burning Man this year in for only one reason, even though I really wish I could go. But I hope these kinds of things will suddenly leak out into the world and not in an organized fashion. That’s the dream.

That’s another one of the best parts of it. Somebody who stumbles on it and doesn’t know what they’re in for.

But your pieces are out there in the regular old world as well. What kind of locations? Do people, are people able to stumble upon your pieces?

Scott Froschaur: [00:18:18] Oh yeah. So, Yeah. And that’s, again, that’s another one of the best parts of it. Somebody who stumbles on it and doesn’t know what they’re in for and see it from a distance and then get surprised that it’s not anything like what they thought. They’re all over the country.

Obviously, I live in Los Angeles, so there’s a high density of them in Southern California, just because that’s easy for me. I have a lot of people who put them in their front yards and things like that. But also, I get grants from cities. So the city of Glendale, which is right next to LA, has given me several grants, to do many, I think at the moment I probably have upwards of about 20 parks throughout, city of Glendale, libraries and parks and schools and things like that. They’re all over the place, Florida, Colorado.

I just had, an opening this weekend, oddly enough. ‘Cause I didn’t go, I actually shifted a bunch of work to Toronto and there are 20 pieces in a place called the Distillery District in Toronto, which for those of us in Los Angeles who know The Brewery, it kind of it’s reminiscent.

It’s a, it’s an old distillery, that they’ve bought and put in art galleries and restaurants and shops. And so it’s a similar sort of, like The Brewery meets The Grove.

Kara Fortier: [00:19:46] That’s funny! But also cool.

Scott Froschaur: [00:19:51] Yeah. But the other part of that is, I met a guy at burning man last year who was installing a sculpture while I was installing my work. And we just got to talking and we exchanged information. And a few months ago, he emailed me. He said, Hey, so I’m the curator for this distillery district thing in Toronto, and I want to put a bunch of your work there. So I shipped him a bunch of stuff, and then the pictures started coming back on Instagram and it’s like, oh! Of course he knows a bunch of other burning man artists. So here’s my work next to all of these other pieces that I recognize from burning man. And so that was really inspiring, to see that.

Kara Fortier: [00:20:35] Oh, I love it! I really think there should be more of that out there in the world.

Scott Froschaur: [00:20:41] I’m working on it.

Kara Fortier: [00:20:43] Yes. You’ve also made it possible to take little pieces of the work home. You have your signs on masks. I was going to sit down with my husband cause as I was going through the shop this week. There are little pins and you can get smaller versions of the signs themselves on your website. They’re really pretty.

Scott Froschaur: [00:21:15] The concept is, when I, I do a piece of work, I don’t see it as kind of an individual piece of artwork. I kind of see it as part of a larger system. And so if someone is interested in the message that’s in one of the signs, you might not have the ability to have one of them in your front yard or something like that, but I try and create a whole spectrum of possibilities.

And so, at the smallest level I do stickers and the stickers are really high quality and they I’ve got them on my car and, that’s a fun way to start. And then, the pins and necklaces and things like that. And then t-shirts, masks, and the smaller signs and all that kind of stuff.

But the idea is that it’s the message, it’s the whole point. That’s why I do it. That’s why I put them up in public. And that’s why I did them as street art, illegally, for a while. The first ones I did were completely illegal.

Kara Fortier: [00:22:08] You weren’t the guy who put up the five freeway sign, are you?

Scott Froschaur: [00:22:12] He’s, he’s, he’s a little older than us. But yeah, I mean, he’s obviously, someone who I look up to that he did amazing work. But, yeah, my first works were all illegal. I started out doing stickers of the signs and then I was like, Oh, what if I could actually just make the signs? And so I make them to the department of transportation spec, and that was my whole thing – if I put it up, maybe people won’t even notice it?

And so I put one up at the corner of fourth and Beaudry in Downtown LA and it was, I lived there for probably six or eight months before it disappeared. I don’t know if like, street services took it down or whoever, but that’s how it all started. I just wanted the message to occur. I just want it to get that out there. And so now it’s like, okay, now I can get cities to, pay me for it. Now I can actually do it as a job and continue forward, making money with it. So that then, I can give them out to people, I put them in front of churches or whatever, and, as I say to them, it’s like, there are organizations that have money that I get money from, and then there are other organizations or individuals who don’t have any money. That’s the whole point is that I can take from this section to kind of fuel this other section.

Kara Fortier: [00:23:34] Yeah, I really liked the stickers because the experience is still jarring. Even if you’re looking at it on a small pin or a necklace, you still see, like, the “one love” one. You see it, it looks like a one-way sign until you read it. And it’s really powerful.

Scott Froschaur: [00:23:51] So that one, I don’t know how close we are to finishing. That one is, I just got a contract with city of West Hollywood doing, that “one love”, which is the rainbow “one love”, in neon, in the center median of Santa Monica Boulevard in West Hollywood.

Kara Fortier: [00:24:08] Oh, wow.

Scott Froschaur: [00:24:10] Yeah, I know! And it’s oversized, it’s like nine feet high and three feet wide and it’s pointing up and the, the love part blinks like a motel thing. Cause it’s all in neon. And then I have another one that says, “relax, you are okay”. It looks like the 101 freeway sign. And so that one’s going to be six feet high and four feet wide and made of neon. And it rotates. It’s like the slow rotation they’re going in the median of Santa Monica Boulevard. So, that’s, the idea – just getting the message out. Where can I get it? Where can I, who will give me the space? When you’re a street artist, you just put it wherever. Yeah.

Kara Fortier: You just take it.

And it’s an interesting,  concept of like moving to asking, but when you ask it lasts longer,

Kara Fortier: [00:24:59] Yeah, exactly.

Scott Froschaur: [00:25:00] That’s part of the thing I love.

Burning Man: The tension between becoming part of the system and still remaining outside of the system.

Kara Fortier: [00:25:01] Are you going to be doing any more subversive kind of work before the end of this summer for burning man fun or – should we not know about it?

Scott Froschaur: [00:25:12] Yeah. Well, it’s funny because, burning man art has become,  with the show with the Smithsonian – and I was fortunate enough to have some pieces in this show at the Smithsonian – then show traveled to several other museums, Cincinnati and Oakland, and I had some pieces in a festival in Las Vegas this past year and there’s a bunch of burning man art. You just started going around and there’s just burning man art all over the place.

So, there is this subversion happening kind of from the inside, which I think, there’s a tension there between becoming part of the system and still remaining outside of the system. But I think that there’s something amazing about burning man art becoming part of the system – becoming public art, this transition. But I think of the transition – street art and burning man art, public art and street art, kind of in tension with each other, right?

Because, public art is sanctioned, street art is unsanctioned. Street art has the capacity to say things that public art can’t say, but public art has the capacity for longevity and to be protected and all these other things. And so then, burning man kind of occupies the central space between the two – that’s where Black Rock City is. As a street artist, I think Black Rock City is what the ideal city looks like that actually supports street art. So if you wanted to go spray paint on a, billboard in Los Angeles, you’d have to do it clandestinely, it would have to be all cloak and dagger and whatever, to make that happen. If you get caught, you could get arrested and all those sorts of things.

Burning man gives you cranes [for your art].  it’s a city designed to support you whatever that crazy vision is. And so it’s almost, burning man is almost a city that’s designed as this meeting point between public art and street art, that street art being, irreverent, it can be anything it wants to be, but public art being supported by the community. Well, burning man is that irreverence supported by the community.

And so this thought process of the transition using burning man, it’s kind of a gateway from, from street art, through burning man into public art. There are people burning man, they can wear a suit and tie or whatever. It can be all professional, and then they can totally slither in and get in there and start delivering payloads, they can deliver the payload of the street art concept into the public milieu.

Burning Man and the US Conference of Mayors

So, to me, it’s, it’s year round – Black Rock City is an amazing event, but there’s a thing called the US Conference of Mayors. And I’ve been lucky enough to be a representative from burning man at the US Conference of Mayors for the past couple of years.

Kara Fortier: [00:28:24] You did that! Oh my goodness.

Scott Froschaur: [00:28:26] And it’s, it’s amazing to see.  burning man has this level of involvement, engagement that, there’s no other city on the planet that can rival the level of engagement at burning man, because burning man is built the way it’s built.

So when you see a mayor from some town in Ohio that’s at the conference of mayors, listening to us talk about participation and talk about engagement. And then they say, “Oh, I want to know more.” And then we bring them out to the Playa and we get to take them on a tour and they get to see the infrastructure. And they get to see how we build this city, which boggles their minds. Right. It boggles anybody’s minds.

Kara Fortier: [00:29:13] Of course!

Scott Froschaur: [00:29:14] You take a mayor, and they’ll go “80,000 people! You’re running it like this?” You’ve got the Rangers. We introduced them to the concept of the Rangers. We introduced them to all of the systems, the radio station, the airport,  the, the port-a-potties. It’s mind boggling! I well up just thinking about it. I get to lead them on an art tour at night, because, for those who don’t know, the greatest moment in any burning man experience is taking a virgin, someone who’s never been to burning man before on their first night on the Playa. And they’ve been in the city before, but they’ve never actually seen what the city looks like at night. And you cross the Esplanade (which is main street) and you cross out into the open Playa for the first time with a virgin at night and their minds melt because it’s incomprehensible.

So, I’m there with 50 mayors who had spent the day seeing all this stuff, and then we get to ride on an art car and we come out of the city into the Playa, and they see the expanse of burning man. And they glaze over and they just have no system of comprehension.

And then we get to take them to the temple and we get to express to them what civic structures can look like that are developed for the expression of grief, because our cities have no civic structures. I mean, it has to be relegated to things like church – there are structures for that –

Kara Fortier: [00:30:53] But that are all inclusive…

Scott Froschaur: [00:30:55] It’s all inclusive, it’s a civic structure just for the expression of grief and you take them there, and they’ve never seen anything like it and they’re mayors and they go, “I need it this in my city I don’t understand how you made all this happen, but I need this in my city”. And so, for me, Burning Man is 365. It’s this thing that is no longer just relegated to the Black Rock City experience.

It’s something that has broken and scattered. And it’s insinuating its way in, across the planet and all of these different levels, right? From, burners who go to their hometown and do something goofy and open up a coffee shop or a bike rental, or who knows what, some fantastic thing there. But then they might run for city council at some point. And now they’re doing this, it’s engaging at so many levels – it’s amazing.

Kara Fortier: [00:32:07] It’s an important conversation, especially, with, when it comes to burning man. I was an RC for a little while, kind of went through a lot of hoops to get there, but I realized it was a time of great transition for me, so I decided to step down. But what I really wish there was more of is… well, there’s kind of an allocation of, “we’re going to do this many events.” So we do those things. There’s already a set thing. And they’re amazing events, like amazing BEquinox and the LA Decompression, all the things that we do, but I just desperately wanted to try and see what’s out there on the subversive side of things on the, a little bit outside of the norm.

That’s Cacophony Society

I loved, Derek and Vanessa, this couple, friends of ours, they do this thing called the Hippos. I heard that it started as an experiential piece on the street – people would walk into this room – a little place that looked like an office waiting room, just to see how long you would wait, things like that.

Those are the things I kind of wish were out in the streets. Like when they see your signs, I’d like to have a little more of that improv thing. Of course the Hippos went to, twice, went to  Coachella. I loved that kind of thing and I kind of wished that there could be, like costumed trash pickups, or anything, I don’t know. I just keep thinking what more could I do?

Scott Froschaur: [00:33:31] And so that’s, to me, that’s Cacophony Society.

Kara Fortier: [00:33:35] I got in touch with that all that way too late.

Scott Froschaur: [00:33:38] Oh, come on! I’m a member of LA cacophony society. Oh, sure! So, there’s Santacon, which is the most obvious, highest profile thing, but there are tons of other events we did a thing years ago called the Night Market and the Night Markets.

Kara Fortier: [00:33:53] Oh yes! I went!

Scott Froschaur: [00:33:54] Okay. Yeah. So that was a Cacophony Society. We invited them down and kind of gave them the structure for that. But, so that, to me, that’s a perfect example. The Night Market was a perfect example of things that Cacophony Society still does.

But, it’s funny because I’m a member of LA Cacophony Society and I’m an elected official on my LA city council neighborhood council.

Kara Fortier: [00:34:21] Love it!

There’s nothing more subversive than becoming part of the governing body.

Scott Froschaur: [00:34:22] And there’s nothing more subversive than becoming part of the governing body understanding their systems, right? Because it’s the same, making public art so much of it is like, knowing the permits, and knowing the engineering and all of these things that are really foreign. If you don’t, if you don’t know this stuff, there’s no way you can make public art work. If you can’t or hire somebody to navigate the bureaucracy of engineering and permits. There are these two black holes for people that they’re horrified by. And that’s the street signs I invented specifically for that, because the street signs, since they’re built to Department of Transportation, spec, means the engineering’s already on file for them.

So, if we’re going to build a giant duck in the middle of Griffith park, it’s gonna be bogged down for years, making sure it’s not gonna fall over or a kid’s not gonna walk up and put their hand on it, get a splinter. There are all of these things. But if I make a street sign, it’s to department transportation spec and they already know it’s not going to fall over. They already know it’s not going to rust. They already know all that stuff. So it totally sidelines all of the permint and engineering process. It puts you on the inside of the system and you start working with their rules and their rules are there for a reason. And if they need to be changed, you need to be on the inside to change them anyway. But, yeah, I’m a strong believer in both. I’m a strong believer in cacophony and government

[Kara Fortier: [00:35:52] Yes-And!

Scott Froschaur: [00:35:53] And being on both sides. Yes-and! How can we build on this?

Kara Fortier: [00:35:57] Wow. This conversation went all kinds of amazing places that I did not expect.

I haven’t actually had a chance to sit down and talk with you yet. Like I’ve always just kind of met you here and there and been like, I need to hang out with that guy and then it never happened. So-

[00:36:12] Scott Froschaur: [00:36:12] We met at Coachella.

Kara Fortier: [00:36:13] We met at Coachella! That’s right!

Scott Froschaur: [00:36:14] We  met with James Pearson’s piece!

Kara Fortier: [00:36:20] Yes! Yes.

Scott Froschaur: [00:36:20] That’s right, the Cryochrome.

Kara Fortier: [00:36:21] Yes! The Hippos weren’t there that year?

Scott Froschaur: [00:36:22] I knew that they were there that year or the next year I cant remember.

Kara Fortier: [00:36:25] Oh my goodness. That’s so funny. Cause I always would just see you and say, yes I know you, but I don’t really know you. So I’m really, really excited that, we did it in this kind of, public-y way, but hopefully we’ll get to do it over a beer at Barbara’s.

Scott Froschaur: [00:36:39] I love it.

Kara Fortier: I would love that so much. Wow. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

Scott Froschaur: Thanks for having me, it was really fun.

Kara Fortier: Good. I’m glad. It’s the way it’s supposed to be!